Discussion:
Suggestion: Make android x86 work with CWM so it will be easyer for others to make roms and we will see more roms.
(too old to reply)
Adi Boncea
2012-03-30 19:05:49 UTC
Permalink
Dont jump at me saying its imposible, its a suggestion and a possible one,
a friend of mine did it in 3 weeks and at the same time moded the ics rom
to work with that, the only thing is he made the installer fully text and
also you need 5 partitions to set as data, cache, system, sdcard and CWM
boot, and also in the installer you must specify the partitions after
theyre names (sda1, sda2 etc) so its not so easy for a noob, i would share
it to help this being done, but he actually works in the domain and used
some things he learned at works so he cant share it, he just did it to
proove me its posible after i sayd it cant be done, the rom wasnt working
as much as the normal android x86 one, but the ideea is that it does boot
and works a bit (most thing dont work as he had to heavily modify the rom
to even make it boot), wouldnt that be a great ideea to make other devs
become attracted by the x86 platform?
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Ikem Krueger
2012-03-30 23:27:59 UTC
Permalink
Make android x86 work with CWM
Sound like a good idea to me.
A friend of mine did it in 3 weeks
and at the same time moded the ics rom to work with that
the only thing is, he made the installer fully text
and in the installer you must specify the partitions after their names
You could give the partition labels.

And access them later via:

/dev/disk/by-label/$LABEL
He learned it at works so he can't share it,
He could reveal the parts that are not "job related".

He could give hints.

Greetings

Ikem
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Adi Boncea
2012-03-31 14:12:43 UTC
Permalink
unfortunately i asked him and he told me he deleted it allready and he sayd
hes too busy to remake it now, maybe in the future, but hes not so
sure..........untill then i hope someone else can make that
Post by Ikem Krueger
Make android x86 work with CWM
Sound like a good idea to me.
A friend of mine did it in 3 weeks
and at the same time moded the ics rom to work with that
the only thing is, he made the installer fully text
and in the installer you must specify the partitions after their names
You could give the partition labels.
/dev/disk/by-label/$LABEL
He learned it at works so he can't share it,
He could reveal the parts that are not "job related".
He could give hints.
Greetings
Ikem
--
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Adi Boncea
2012-03-31 11:37:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ikem Krueger
Make android x86 work with CWM
Sound like a good idea to me.
A friend of mine did it in 3 weeks
and at the same time moded the ics rom to work with that
the only thing is, he made the installer fully text
and in the installer you must specify the partitions after their names
You could give the partition labels.
/dev/disk/by-label/$LABEL
He learned it at works so he can't share it,
He could reveal the parts that are not "job related".
He could give hints.
Greetings
Ikem
--
My blog: http://linux-workers.posterous.com/
aha, i will ask him today, maybe i can make him give some hints
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Ooop Yooo
2012-04-01 02:16:38 UTC
Permalink
Some thoughts :

I know how CWM is working on ARM devices as they do use Android mostly as a
unique OS, so what advantage would CWM bring to Android-x86 ?

Even if this is feasible, don't expect any great changes in the way
Android-x86 project works... ^^

I have seen a thread about a project for a "universal" android-x86 version
and I don't think it will ever come to light one day, as that supposes a
complete rewrite on the way Android(x86) works... ^^
Post by Adi Boncea
Dont jump at me saying its imposible, its a suggestion and a possible one,
a friend of mine did it in 3 weeks and at the same time moded the ics rom
to work with that, the only thing is he made the installer fully text and
also you need 5 partitions to set as data, cache, system, sdcard and CWM
boot, and also in the installer you must specify the partitions after
theyre names (sda1, sda2 etc) so its not so easy for a noob, i would share
it to help this being done, but he actually works in the domain and used
some things he learned at works so he cant share it, he just did it to
proove me its posible after i sayd it cant be done, the rom wasnt working
as much as the normal android x86 one, but the ideea is that it does boot
and works a bit (most thing dont work as he had to heavily modify the rom
to even make it boot), wouldnt that be a great ideea to make other devs
become attracted by the x86 platform?
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Adi Boncea
2012-04-01 14:12:51 UTC
Permalink
well i think it would be easyer for others to make x86 roms/ports of other
roms if we would use CWM, so maybe we will see.....idk, maybe CM7, OMFGB
and other roms, other advantages im not so sure.....
Post by Ooop Yooo
I know how CWM is working on ARM devices as they do use Android mostly as
a unique OS, so what advantage would CWM bring to Android-x86 ?
Even if this is feasible, don't expect any great changes in the way
Android-x86 project works... ^^
I have seen a thread about a project for a "universal" android-x86 version
and I don't think it will ever come to light one day, as that supposes a
complete rewrite on the way Android(x86) works... ^^
Post by Adi Boncea
Dont jump at me saying its imposible, its a suggestion and a possible
one, a friend of mine did it in 3 weeks and at the same time moded the ics
rom to work with that, the only thing is he made the installer fully text
and also you need 5 partitions to set as data, cache, system, sdcard and
CWM boot, and also in the installer you must specify the partitions after
theyre names (sda1, sda2 etc) so its not so easy for a noob, i would share
it to help this being done, but he actually works in the domain and used
some things he learned at works so he cant share it, he just did it to
proove me its posible after i sayd it cant be done, the rom wasnt working
as much as the normal android x86 one, but the ideea is that it does boot
and works a bit (most thing dont work as he had to heavily modify the rom
to even make it boot), wouldnt that be a great ideea to make other devs
become attracted by the x86 platform?
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Ooop Yooo
2012-04-01 22:56:51 UTC
Permalink
Again, can you elaborate please ???

How CWM would be easier for devs to create x86 builds (there is not real
ROM with x86, but don't matter much, just kind of semantics) ?

Can you explain in concrete terms with clear examples ?

I have some ideas but I prefer you explain them... ^^

But the main drawback I can think of is that it will make multiboot process
much thougher if not impossible to everyone : devs and users, while we
won't be able to use Live CD feature anymore. So no way to test the build
safely... ^^

I know it's possible to do backups and restores (of the Android system)
from inside CWM...

But again, CWM will install Android-x86 as the unique OS on the hard disk,
so what about existing Windows/Linux/... partitions ???
Post by Adi Boncea
well i think it would be easyer for others to make x86 roms/ports of other
roms if we would use CWM, so maybe we will see.....idk, maybe CM7, OMFGB
and other roms, other advantages im not so sure.....
Post by Ooop Yooo
I know how CWM is working on ARM devices as they do use Android mostly as
a unique OS, so what advantage would CWM bring to Android-x86 ?
Even if this is feasible, don't expect any great changes in the way
Android-x86 project works... ^^
I have seen a thread about a project for a "universal" android-x86
version and I don't think it will ever come to light one day, as that
supposes a complete rewrite on the way Android(x86) works... ^^
Post by Adi Boncea
Dont jump at me saying its imposible, its a suggestion and a possible
one, a friend of mine did it in 3 weeks and at the same time moded the ics
rom to work with that, the only thing is he made the installer fully text
and also you need 5 partitions to set as data, cache, system, sdcard and
CWM boot, and also in the installer you must specify the partitions after
theyre names (sda1, sda2 etc) so its not so easy for a noob, i would share
it to help this being done, but he actually works in the domain and used
some things he learned at works so he cant share it, he just did it to
proove me its posible after i sayd it cant be done, the rom wasnt working
as much as the normal android x86 one, but the ideea is that it does boot
and works a bit (most thing dont work as he had to heavily modify the rom
to even make it boot), wouldnt that be a great ideea to make other devs
become attracted by the x86 platform?
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Iggy Budiman H.
2012-04-02 00:14:27 UTC
Permalink
We already have PC BIOS and GRUB that way much better than CWM. Android
phones need cwm because they don't have those two good thing.

I also can't see any correlation between CWM and Phone's custom ROM
development. CWM is only and way to put files into some partition,
especially location that very hard to do when you're already have Android
system loaded. And that not an issue at all in Android-x86.

CWM has nothing todo with ROM development, they only help remove or copy
file to your device, and it used after the ROM cooked.
---------------
salam
-iggy

Sent using charming phone for charming people.

On 2 Apr 2012 05:56, "Ooop Yooo" <ooop4040-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

Again, can you elaborate please ???

How CWM would be easier for devs to create x86 builds (there is not real
ROM with x86, but don't matter much, just kind of semantics) ?

Can you explain in concrete terms with clear examples ?

I have some ideas but I prefer you explain them... ^^

But the main drawback I can think of is that it will make multiboot process
much thougher if not impossible to everyone : devs and users, while we
won't be able to use Live CD feature anymore. So no way to test the build
safely... ^^

I know it's possible to do backups and restores (of the Android system)
from inside CWM...

But again, CWM will install Android-x86 as the unique OS on the hard disk,
so what about existing Windows/Linux/... partitions ???
well i think it would be easyer for others to...
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Ooop Yooo
2012-04-02 04:11:47 UTC
Permalink
When you say "we", are you talking in name and as part of the Android-x86
dev team ? ;-)))

I have flashed different stock and custom ROM on different ARM devices,
with or without CWM for a while, and it's not that easy to the end users
due to high risk of hard or soft brick of the devices. And even now, after *
some* experiences, I don't feel completely confortable when I do a new ROM
flash (already got a hard brick with a phone not that long ago. ^^ )...

Then as I said earlier, it's even harder to multiboot different OS on
Phones or Tabs, so trying to propose such a process to totally noobs mostly
accustomed with Windows and when a few users have some linux knowledge is
IMO beyond the scope of this project...

Then with custom ROM you need most of the time to do a full wipe of the
device, and "some times" not, but this is some kind of poker game. So doing
such a process on x86 devices with existing vital OSes such as Windows or
Linux systems without messing them is again a high risk.

It's fairly easy to backup some hundred MB or some GB, but not that easy to
do the same with some hundred GB, when most end users don't even have any
backups of their system or data partition and don't even think about doing
any !!! LOL

For now I haven't seen any Phone or Tab safe Live Android system, so do you
think this can be done with CWM or maybe CWM can be an additional options
for Android-x86 ???

Then I haven't seen anyone responding to my initial questions even if I
don't really need any answer for myself. :-))))
My questions are not really *"my"* questions... lol

So, now, you don't have to convince me as I'm not part of the Android-x86
devs team nor of the maintainers team, just some kind of a "tourist" on
this forum. :-D

I don't post very often, BUT read alot and I know how these guys works and
thinks : I have seen some different discussions about changing the inner
ways Android-x86 works but haven't seen much, except... the SuperUser
function... ;-)

I'm not denying the good jobs done by "some" devs as they really do a good
one !

I have seen many users grumbling and moaning again and again about non
working same hardwares, but again... pfffuut !!!

In some way it's pleasant to read such proposals, suggestions or projects
when we know they'll never come...

Good time for popcorn and soda. :-)
Post by Iggy Budiman H.
We already have PC BIOS and GRUB that way much better than CWM. Android
phones need cwm because they don't have those two good thing.
I also can't see any correlation between CWM and Phone's custom ROM
development. CWM is only and way to put files into some partition,
especially location that very hard to do when you're already have Android
system loaded. And that not an issue at all in Android-x86.
CWM has nothing todo with ROM development, they only help remove or copy
file to your device, and it used after the ROM cooked.
---------------
salam
-iggy
Sent using charming phone for charming people.
Again, can you elaborate please ???
How CWM would be easier for devs to create x86 builds (there is not real
ROM with x86, but don't matter much, just kind of semantics) ?
Can you explain in concrete terms with clear examples ?
I have some ideas but I prefer you explain them... ^^
But the main drawback I can think of is that it will make multiboot
process much thougher if not impossible to everyone : devs and users, while
we won't be able to use Live CD feature anymore. So no way to test the
build safely... ^^
I know it's possible to do backups and restores (of the Android system)
from inside CWM...
But again, CWM will install Android-x86 as the unique OS on the hard disk,
so what about existing Windows/Linux/... partitions ???
well i think it would be easyer for others to...
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Adi Boncea
2012-04-02 21:40:41 UTC
Permalink
also i kinda lost myself from the subject: the only partitions it touches
are the ones you select at the instalation, so you can do anything in cwm
without bricking your allready existing partitions, and a live cd can be
made because: lets say it boots, it gives the option to enter cwm, but you
cnat do anything in it cause of being a live cd
Post by Ooop Yooo
Again, can you elaborate please ???
How CWM would be easier for devs to create x86 builds (there is not real
ROM with x86, but don't matter much, just kind of semantics) ?
Can you explain in concrete terms with clear examples ?
I have some ideas but I prefer you explain them... ^^
But the main drawback I can think of is that it will make multiboot
process much thougher if not impossible to everyone : devs and users, while
we won't be able to use Live CD feature anymore. So no way to test the
build safely... ^^
I know it's possible to do backups and restores (of the Android system)
from inside CWM...
But again, CWM will install Android-x86 as the unique OS on the hard disk,
so what about existing Windows/Linux/... partitions ???
Post by Adi Boncea
well i think it would be easyer for others to make x86 roms/ports of
other roms if we would use CWM, so maybe we will see.....idk, maybe CM7,
OMFGB and other roms, other advantages im not so sure.....
Post by Ooop Yooo
I know how CWM is working on ARM devices as they do use Android mostly
as a unique OS, so what advantage would CWM bring to Android-x86 ?
Even if this is feasible, don't expect any great changes in the way
Android-x86 project works... ^^
I have seen a thread about a project for a "universal" android-x86
version and I don't think it will ever come to light one day, as that
supposes a complete rewrite on the way Android(x86) works... ^^
Post by Adi Boncea
Dont jump at me saying its imposible, its a suggestion and a possible
one, a friend of mine did it in 3 weeks and at the same time moded the ics
rom to work with that, the only thing is he made the installer fully text
and also you need 5 partitions to set as data, cache, system, sdcard and
CWM boot, and also in the installer you must specify the partitions after
theyre names (sda1, sda2 etc) so its not so easy for a noob, i would share
it to help this being done, but he actually works in the domain and used
some things he learned at works so he cant share it, he just did it to
proove me its posible after i sayd it cant be done, the rom wasnt working
as much as the normal android x86 one, but the ideea is that it does boot
and works a bit (most thing dont work as he had to heavily modify the rom
to even make it boot), wouldnt that be a great ideea to make other devs
become attracted by the x86 platform?
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Ooop Yooo
2012-04-03 06:26:36 UTC
Permalink
ROTL ROFL :-)))))))

If you get lost yourself I can't help you much.... lol

I guess you are a end-user right ????

I'm not quite sure you have a good understanding on how this all works :
your friend says this, your friend says that but you don't really
understand the process, am I wrong ??? :P


Just for your knowledge, even tough you can't save your changes on a Live
Android "CD"/Pendrive/SD Card, at least you can test the build to insure it
matches your hardware and work with it, without touching any thing on your
working system. This can't be done with CWM and without flashing Android
over your working winmo OS !!!

Of course you could flash back back your winmo, but that's not the easy way
you suggested... ^^
Post by Adi Boncea
also i kinda lost myself from the subject: the only partitions it touches
are the ones you select at the instalation, so you can do anything in cwm
without bricking your allready existing partitions, and a live cd can be
made because: lets say it boots, it gives the option to enter cwm, but you
cnat do anything in it cause of being a live cd
Post by Ooop Yooo
Again, can you elaborate please ???
How CWM would be easier for devs to create x86 builds (there is not real
ROM with x86, but don't matter much, just kind of semantics) ?
Can you explain in concrete terms with clear examples ?
I have some ideas but I prefer you explain them... ^^
But the main drawback I can think of is that it will make multiboot
process much thougher if not impossible to everyone : devs and users, while
we won't be able to use Live CD feature anymore. So no way to test the
build safely... ^^
I know it's possible to do backups and restores (of the Android system)
from inside CWM...
But again, CWM will install Android-x86 as the unique OS on the hard
disk, so what about existing Windows/Linux/... partitions ???
Post by Adi Boncea
well i think it would be easyer for others to make x86 roms/ports of
other roms if we would use CWM, so maybe we will see.....idk, maybe CM7,
OMFGB and other roms, other advantages im not so sure.....
Post by Ooop Yooo
I know how CWM is working on ARM devices as they do use Android mostly
as a unique OS, so what advantage would CWM bring to Android-x86 ?
Even if this is feasible, don't expect any great changes in the way
Android-x86 project works... ^^
I have seen a thread about a project for a "universal" android-x86
version and I don't think it will ever come to light one day, as that
supposes a complete rewrite on the way Android(x86) works... ^^
Post by Adi Boncea
Dont jump at me saying its imposible, its a suggestion and a possible
one, a friend of mine did it in 3 weeks and at the same time moded the ics
rom to work with that, the only thing is he made the installer fully text
and also you need 5 partitions to set as data, cache, system, sdcard and
CWM boot, and also in the installer you must specify the partitions after
theyre names (sda1, sda2 etc) so its not so easy for a noob, i would share
it to help this being done, but he actually works in the domain and used
some things he learned at works so he cant share it, he just did it to
proove me its posible after i sayd it cant be done, the rom wasnt working
as much as the normal android x86 one, but the ideea is that it does boot
and works a bit (most thing dont work as he had to heavily modify the rom
to even make it boot), wouldnt that be a great ideea to make other devs
become attracted by the x86 platform?
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Adi Boncea
2012-04-02 21:35:21 UTC
Permalink
what my friend acieved was so we get android in the grub, but while in the
boot process it sayd press enter to enter recoverry so it doesent touch the
other things on it like windows/linux/mac, its mostly the same thing, but
needs 5 partitions to install so you can make an sdcard bigger than the
current fake sdcard (the partitiions are: CWM, system, data, cache, sdcard)
and it would be easyer to make the rom as a normal zip instead of having to
make a new cd for every rom someone wants to creat, you would just have to
modify the installer.zip and that would also make repearing buggs easyer in
my opinnion for just having to modify a .zip file, also my friend sayd he
will try to remake it next month and give some hints in making this thing
Post by Ooop Yooo
Again, can you elaborate please ???
How CWM would be easier for devs to create x86 builds (there is not real
ROM with x86, but don't matter much, just kind of semantics) ?
Can you explain in concrete terms with clear examples ?
I have some ideas but I prefer you explain them... ^^
But the main drawback I can think of is that it will make multiboot
process much thougher if not impossible to everyone : devs and users, while
we won't be able to use Live CD feature anymore. So no way to test the
build safely... ^^
I know it's possible to do backups and restores (of the Android system)
from inside CWM...
But again, CWM will install Android-x86 as the unique OS on the hard disk,
so what about existing Windows/Linux/... partitions ???
Post by Adi Boncea
well i think it would be easyer for others to make x86 roms/ports of
other roms if we would use CWM, so maybe we will see.....idk, maybe CM7,
OMFGB and other roms, other advantages im not so sure.....
Post by Ooop Yooo
I know how CWM is working on ARM devices as they do use Android mostly
as a unique OS, so what advantage would CWM bring to Android-x86 ?
Even if this is feasible, don't expect any great changes in the way
Android-x86 project works... ^^
I have seen a thread about a project for a "universal" android-x86
version and I don't think it will ever come to light one day, as that
supposes a complete rewrite on the way Android(x86) works... ^^
Post by Adi Boncea
Dont jump at me saying its imposible, its a suggestion and a possible
one, a friend of mine did it in 3 weeks and at the same time moded the ics
rom to work with that, the only thing is he made the installer fully text
and also you need 5 partitions to set as data, cache, system, sdcard and
CWM boot, and also in the installer you must specify the partitions after
theyre names (sda1, sda2 etc) so its not so easy for a noob, i would share
it to help this being done, but he actually works in the domain and used
some things he learned at works so he cant share it, he just did it to
proove me its posible after i sayd it cant be done, the rom wasnt working
as much as the normal android x86 one, but the ideea is that it does boot
and works a bit (most thing dont work as he had to heavily modify the rom
to even make it boot), wouldnt that be a great ideea to make other devs
become attracted by the x86 platform?
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Ooop Yooo
2012-04-03 06:12:00 UTC
Permalink
Ah yes !!!

Again, show me the procedure on how to install CWM and/or Android without
messing up winmo : just forget windows/linux/mac just to keep everything
simple... ^^

I don't need any zip or binaries or such, just the procedure...
Post by Adi Boncea
what my friend acieved was so we get android in the grub, but while in the
boot process it sayd press enter to enter recoverry so it doesent touch the
other things on it like windows/linux/mac, its mostly the same thing, but
needs 5 partitions to install so you can make an sdcard bigger than the
current fake sdcard (the partitiions are: CWM, system, data, cache, sdcard)
and it would be easyer to make the rom as a normal zip instead of having to
make a new cd for every rom someone wants to creat, you would just have to
modify the installer.zip and that would also make repearing buggs easyer in
my opinnion for just having to modify a .zip file, also my friend sayd he
will try to remake it next month and give some hints in making this thing
Post by Ooop Yooo
Again, can you elaborate please ???
How CWM would be easier for devs to create x86 builds (there is not real
ROM with x86, but don't matter much, just kind of semantics) ?
Can you explain in concrete terms with clear examples ?
I have some ideas but I prefer you explain them... ^^
But the main drawback I can think of is that it will make multiboot
process much thougher if not impossible to everyone : devs and users, while
we won't be able to use Live CD feature anymore. So no way to test the
build safely... ^^
I know it's possible to do backups and restores (of the Android system)
from inside CWM...
But again, CWM will install Android-x86 as the unique OS on the hard
disk, so what about existing Windows/Linux/... partitions ???
Post by Adi Boncea
well i think it would be easyer for others to make x86 roms/ports of
other roms if we would use CWM, so maybe we will see.....idk, maybe CM7,
OMFGB and other roms, other advantages im not so sure.....
Post by Ooop Yooo
I know how CWM is working on ARM devices as they do use Android mostly
as a unique OS, so what advantage would CWM bring to Android-x86 ?
Even if this is feasible, don't expect any great changes in the way
Android-x86 project works... ^^
I have seen a thread about a project for a "universal" android-x86
version and I don't think it will ever come to light one day, as that
supposes a complete rewrite on the way Android(x86) works... ^^
Post by Adi Boncea
Dont jump at me saying its imposible, its a suggestion and a possible
one, a friend of mine did it in 3 weeks and at the same time moded the ics
rom to work with that, the only thing is he made the installer fully text
and also you need 5 partitions to set as data, cache, system, sdcard and
CWM boot, and also in the installer you must specify the partitions after
theyre names (sda1, sda2 etc) so its not so easy for a noob, i would share
it to help this being done, but he actually works in the domain and used
some things he learned at works so he cant share it, he just did it to
proove me its posible after i sayd it cant be done, the rom wasnt working
as much as the normal android x86 one, but the ideea is that it does boot
and works a bit (most thing dont work as he had to heavily modify the rom
to even make it boot), wouldnt that be a great ideea to make other devs
become attracted by the x86 platform?
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Adi Boncea
2012-04-02 21:46:38 UTC
Permalink
what i can compare what im trying to say with is the way that the android
cwm ports work on the winmo phones like htc touch pro 2, htc touch hd, htc
diamond and others (they boot from the sdcard with cwm and a lot of codes
writing and at a moment u see a pres vol down to enter recovery)
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Ooop Yooo
2012-04-03 06:06:17 UTC
Permalink
Ok, we started with CWM, and now you talk about winmo phones... ^^

I'm clueless about winmo, and not really interested about it...

But just for my knowledge point me to the procedure on how to install CWM
from a winmo system, and get winmo working on the phone ??? ;-)

But may be that's not the goal as installing CWM should probably to switch
from winmo to android, right ?

So where is the procedure to install CWM without breaking winmo and get
both winmo and android both installed "side by side" ?!?!?! :-)))
Post by Adi Boncea
what i can compare what im trying to say with is the way that the android
cwm ports work on the winmo phones like htc touch pro 2, htc touch hd, htc
diamond and others (they boot from the sdcard with cwm and a lot of codes
writing and at a moment u see a pres vol down to enter recovery)
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Corvus
2012-04-03 07:12:53 UTC
Permalink
Ok... everybody calm down...

Lets think about how CWM works and if we need it.

You have a phone with no way to access other files that the /data by
default, with root you can access /system too, and maybe read some of the
other partitions, like recovery. This is ok, because we dont have access to
anything and now have access to something... now we change default recovery
(with limited access) with CWM where we have almost access to everything...
this is great...now we have access to everything, so now we can change rom,
and make some hacking...

Now we have a pc with grub... o wait, we already have access to all
partitions... we can make anything we want...

So once we know what is CWM for is clear that we dont need it...

Now, for updating and so on...

What you friend does was creare a partition layout similar to an android
phone and modify the installer scripts to copy them in the correct
partition. I mean, he create /data /system etc and modify the installer to
copy /system files in the correct partition. So for update this is good,
because it only need to change /system partition, but this is too a mess...
because /data from honeycomb may be not compatible with /data for ICS, so
maybe you can make a script to wipe /data, but this is another modification
that has to be done... I have think this in 30 seconds, but implementing
this can take many time and we can find many problems doing it.

So WE the developers (at least i speak of myself) prefer to make a rom
fully working and once it is done maybe work for a good way update it.
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Ooop Yooo
2012-04-06 05:10:46 UTC
Permalink
I'm very calm Corvus... ;-)

Just wanted to be sure if he had a good understanding on the way CWM works
and nethertheless if it has some advantages, I know it'll never be
implemented as that means too important changes in Android-x86 project.

Both Grub and CWM have pros and cons :

Cons with CWM have already been described above.
Pros with CWM is that you can easily update the kernel, add optimizations,
many changes, add scripts and do install new Android version without
erasing existing datas, save and restore all Android system, etc....

Problem with Grub is it's not working well when one tries to install
Android-x86 iso on any medium : Pendrive, SD Card, HDD or so, no way to
update an existing Android installed version and keeping user datas.

ARM devs don't work the same way, as Android and kernel are two different
building process while Android-x86 building process is mainly a single one
process. You can build the kernel separately, but there is no users tool to
to install the kernel separately from Android.

I think there are some additional works to do on newinstaller and grub to
improve it... ^^
I guess busybox needs to be updated btw... ^^

Do you think you can work on it ? ;-)))
Post by Corvus
Ok... everybody calm down...
Lets think about how CWM works and if we need it.
You have a phone with no way to access other files that the /data by
default, with root you can access /system too, and maybe read some of the
other partitions, like recovery. This is ok, because we dont have access to
anything and now have access to something... now we change default recovery
(with limited access) with CWM where we have almost access to everything...
this is great...now we have access to everything, so now we can change rom,
and make some hacking...
Now we have a pc with grub... o wait, we already have access to all
partitions... we can make anything we want...
So once we know what is CWM for is clear that we dont need it...
Now, for updating and so on...
What you friend does was creare a partition layout similar to an android
phone and modify the installer scripts to copy them in the correct
partition. I mean, he create /data /system etc and modify the installer to
copy /system files in the correct partition. So for update this is good,
because it only need to change /system partition, but this is too a mess...
because /data from honeycomb may be not compatible with /data for ICS, so
maybe you can make a script to wipe /data, but this is another modification
that has to be done... I have think this in 30 seconds, but implementing
this can take many time and we can find many problems doing it.
So WE the developers (at least i speak of myself) prefer to make a rom
fully working and once it is done maybe work for a good way update it.
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Stefan Matthäus
2012-04-06 05:31:21 UTC
Permalink
Hello, for me it was easy to update to a new android x86 build, without
loosing any datas , without loosing any settings, without cwm.

The trick is dual boot with easybcd and neogrub, and that my android is
placed in my windows 7 ntfs partition in an Android4 folder. When a new
release of the zip-version of the Corvus mod comes, I just replace from
windows everything in that folder except of the file data.img. That is
quite easy to do.

Maybe something like that could be done as a native androidx86 update
function in the future?

Stefan
Post by Ooop Yooo
I'm very calm Corvus... ;-)
Just wanted to be sure if he had a good understanding on the way CWM works
and nethertheless if it has some advantages, I know it'll never be
implemented as that means too important changes in Android-x86 project.
Cons with CWM have already been described above.
Pros with CWM is that you can easily update the kernel, add optimizations,
many changes, add scripts and do install new Android version without
erasing existing datas, save and restore all Android system, etc....
Problem with Grub is it's not working well when one tries to install
Android-x86 iso on any medium : Pendrive, SD Card, HDD or so, no way to
update an existing Android installed version and keeping user datas.
ARM devs don't work the same way, as Android and kernel are two different
building process while Android-x86 building process is mainly a single one
process. You can build the kernel separately, but there is no users tool to
to install the kernel separately from Android.
I think there are some additional works to do on newinstaller and grub to
improve it... ^^
I guess busybox needs to be updated btw... ^^
Do you think you can work on it ? ;-)))
Post by Corvus
Ok... everybody calm down...
Lets think about how CWM works and if we need it.
You have a phone with no way to access other files that the /data by
default, with root you can access /system too, and maybe read some of the
other partitions, like recovery. This is ok, because we dont have access to
anything and now have access to something... now we change default recovery
(with limited access) with CWM where we have almost access to everything...
this is great...now we have access to everything, so now we can change rom,
and make some hacking...
Now we have a pc with grub... o wait, we already have access to all
partitions... we can make anything we want...
So once we know what is CWM for is clear that we dont need it...
Now, for updating and so on...
What you friend does was creare a partition layout similar to an android
phone and modify the installer scripts to copy them in the correct
partition. I mean, he create /data /system etc and modify the installer to
copy /system files in the correct partition. So for update this is good,
because it only need to change /system partition, but this is too a mess...
because /data from honeycomb may be not compatible with /data for ICS, so
maybe you can make a script to wipe /data, but this is another modification
that has to be done... I have think this in 30 seconds, but implementing
this can take many time and we can find many problems doing it.
So WE the developers (at least i speak of myself) prefer to make a rom
fully working and once it is done maybe work for a good way update it.
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Ooop Yooo
2012-04-06 14:08:52 UTC
Permalink
Just to be sure...

You aren't a noob ? Are you ? :P

When I see the numbers of users asking for help just on how to install
Android-x86 wether on Pendrive, SD Card or HDD, I guess it's not that easy.
I see also similar questions about updating versions and same issues...

"We" are devs and something that sounds like trivial for us, is not for an
end-user.

I have spent many years at supporting end-users, and I also do developments
and I know the great gap between our understanding and their understanding
of this kind of problematics.

Hopefully you can create an easier way to do all this pretty soon, before
Intel releases his own build... ^^ ;-)
Post by Stefan Matthäus
Hello, for me it was easy to update to a new android x86 build, without
loosing any datas , without loosing any settings, without cwm.
The trick is dual boot with easybcd and neogrub, and that my android is
placed in my windows 7 ntfs partition in an Android4 folder. When a new
release of the zip-version of the Corvus mod comes, I just replace from
windows everything in that folder except of the file data.img. That is
quite easy to do.
Maybe something like that could be done as a native androidx86 update
function in the future?
Stefan
I'm very calm Corvus... ;-)
Post by Ooop Yooo
Just wanted to be sure if he had a good understanding on the way CWM
works and nethertheless if it has some advantages, I know it'll never be
implemented as that means too important changes in Android-x86 project.
Cons with CWM have already been described above.
Pros with CWM is that you can easily update the kernel, add
optimizations, many changes, add scripts and do install new Android version
without erasing existing datas, save and restore all Android system, etc....
Problem with Grub is it's not working well when one tries to install
Android-x86 iso on any medium : Pendrive, SD Card, HDD or so, no way to
update an existing Android installed version and keeping user datas.
ARM devs don't work the same way, as Android and kernel are two different
building process while Android-x86 building process is mainly a single one
process. You can build the kernel separately, but there is no users tool to
to install the kernel separately from Android.
I think there are some additional works to do on newinstaller and grub to
improve it... ^^
I guess busybox needs to be updated btw... ^^
Do you think you can work on it ? ;-)))
Post by Corvus
Ok... everybody calm down...
Lets think about how CWM works and if we need it.
You have a phone with no way to access other files that the /data by
default, with root you can access /system too, and maybe read some of the
other partitions, like recovery. This is ok, because we dont have access to
anything and now have access to something... now we change default recovery
(with limited access) with CWM where we have almost access to everything...
this is great...now we have access to everything, so now we can change rom,
and make some hacking...
Now we have a pc with grub... o wait, we already have access to all
partitions... we can make anything we want...
So once we know what is CWM for is clear that we dont need it...
Now, for updating and so on...
What you friend does was creare a partition layout similar to an android
phone and modify the installer scripts to copy them in the correct
partition. I mean, he create /data /system etc and modify the installer to
copy /system files in the correct partition. So for update this is good,
because it only need to change /system partition, but this is too a mess...
because /data from honeycomb may be not compatible with /data for ICS, so
maybe you can make a script to wipe /data, but this is another modification
that has to be done... I have think this in 30 seconds, but implementing
this can take many time and we can find many problems doing it.
So WE the developers (at least i speak of myself) prefer to make a rom
fully working and once it is done maybe work for a good way update it.
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Stefan
2012-04-06 21:33:06 UTC
Permalink
Hello,

I was working seven years in 1st/2nd level support of a PC components
manufacturer (mainboards, graphics cards, etc...) so I know what I do.

Anyhow, this manual method to replace the system files by updated ones
and to keep the original ones, should be able to be done also in an
automatic process. Maybe like that:

step 1. Android X86 starts a backround update check process, which
detects new updates and download that as a single archive file
step 2. The update check process gives out a message to the user that
update is available and asks to reboot for the update. If he denys, the
update will be installed at next user generated reboot.
step 3. grub menu.lst is modified: The original entry to boot Android
productive environement is disabled. Instead a service-kernel / init.rd
whatever is enabled.
step 4. When the device reboots, that service-kernel starts instead of
the standard. The init-process is shortened much, it just starts a task
to unpack the update archive to the system. (The update package does not
contain personal datas and settings (data.img, data folder, whatever...)
, so these keep untouched while the system files are replaced from the
update archive file.
step 5. after a verification that the package has been correctly
unpacked and overwritten the outdated system files, grub menu.lst is
again changed back to original. (see step 3)
step 6. Update process resets the device to reboot into Android system.

How about this idea?

Stefan
Post by Ooop Yooo
Just to be sure...
You aren't a noob ? Are you ? :P
When I see the numbers of users asking for help just on how to install
Android-x86 wether on Pendrive, SD Card or HDD, I guess it's not that
easy. I see also similar questions about updating versions and same
issues...
"We" are devs and something that sounds like trivial for us, is not
for an end-user.
I have spent many years at supporting end-users, and I also do
developments and I know the great gap between our understanding and
their understanding of this kind of problematics.
Hopefully you can create an easier way to do all this pretty soon,
before Intel releases his own build... ^^ ;-)
Hello, for me it was easy to update to a new android x86 build,
without loosing any datas , without loosing any settings, without cwm.
The trick is dual boot with easybcd and neogrub, and that my
android is placed in my windows 7 ntfs partition in an Android4
folder. When a new release of the zip-version of the Corvus mod
comes, I just replace from windows everything in that folder
except of the file data.img. That is quite easy to do.
Maybe something like that could be done as a native androidx86
update function in the future?
Stefan
I'm very calm Corvus... ;-)
Just wanted to be sure if he had a good understanding on the
way CWM works and nethertheless if it has some advantages, I
know it'll never be implemented as that means too important
changes in Android-x86 project.
Cons with CWM have already been described above.
Pros with CWM is that you can easily update the kernel, add
optimizations, many changes, add scripts and do install new
Android version without erasing existing datas, save and
restore all Android system, etc....
Problem with Grub is it's not working well when one tries to
install Android-x86 iso on any medium : Pendrive, SD Card, HDD
or so, no way to update an existing Android installed version
and keeping user datas.
ARM devs don't work the same way, as Android and kernel are
two different building process while Android-x86 building
process is mainly a single one process. You can build the
kernel separately, but there is no users tool to to install
the kernel separately from Android.
I think there are some additional works to do on newinstaller
and grub to improve it... ^^
I guess busybox needs to be updated btw... ^^
Do you think you can work on it ? ;-)))
Ok... everybody calm down...
Lets think about how CWM works and if we need it.
You have a phone with no way to access other files that
the /data by default, with root you can access /system
too, and maybe read some of the other partitions, like
recovery. This is ok, because we dont have access to
anything and now have access to something... now we change
default recovery (with limited access) with CWM where we
have almost access to everything... this is great...now we
have access to everything, so now we can change rom, and
make some hacking...
Now we have a pc with grub... o wait, we already have
access to all partitions... we can make anything we want...
So once we know what is CWM for is clear that we dont need it...
Now, for updating and so on...
What you friend does was creare a partition layout similar
to an android phone and modify the installer scripts to
copy them in the correct partition. I mean, he create
/data /system etc and modify the installer to copy /system
files in the correct partition. So for update this is
good, because it only need to change /system partition,
but this is too a mess... because /data from honeycomb may
be not compatible with /data for ICS, so maybe you can
make a script to wipe /data, but this is another
modification that has to be done... I have think this in
30 seconds, but implementing this can take many time and
we can find many problems doing it.
So WE the developers (at least i speak of myself) prefer
to make a rom fully working and once it is done maybe work
for a good way update it.
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Ooop Yooo
2012-04-08 09:29:07 UTC
Permalink
I'll answer later as I was quite busy and haven't slept much these past
days/nights... ^^

And as I'll need time to respond on every steps.

Cheers.
Post by Stefan Matthäus
Hello,
I was working seven years in 1st/2nd level support of a PC components
manufacturer (mainboards, graphics cards, etc...) so I know what I do.
Anyhow, this manual method to replace the system files by updated ones and
to keep the original ones, should be able to be done also in an automatic
step 1. Android X86 starts a backround update check process, which detects
new updates and download that as a single archive file
step 2. The update check process gives out a message to the user that
update is available and asks to reboot for the update. If he denys, the
update will be installed at next user generated reboot.
step 3. grub menu.lst is modified: The original entry to boot Android
productive environement is disabled. Instead a service-kernel / init.rd
whatever is enabled.
step 4. When the device reboots, that service-kernel starts instead of the
standard. The init-process is shortened much, it just starts a task to
unpack the update archive to the system. (The update package does not
contain personal datas and settings (data.img, data folder, whatever...) ,
so these keep untouched while the system files are replaced from the update
archive file.
step 5. after a verification that the package has been correctly unpacked
and overwritten the outdated system files, grub menu.lst is again changed
back to original. (see step 3)
step 6. Update process resets the device to reboot into Android system.
How about this idea?
Stefan
Just to be sure...
You aren't a noob ? Are you ? :P
When I see the numbers of users asking for help just on how to install
Android-x86 wether on Pendrive, SD Card or HDD, I guess it's not that easy.
I see also similar questions about updating versions and same issues...
"We" are devs and something that sounds like trivial for us, is not for
an end-user.
I have spent many years at supporting end-users, and I also do
developments and I know the great gap between our understanding and their
understanding of this kind of problematics.
Hopefully you can create an easier way to do all this pretty soon,
before Intel releases his own build... ^^ ;-)
Post by Stefan Matthäus
Hello, for me it was easy to update to a new android x86 build, without
loosing any datas , without loosing any settings, without cwm.
The trick is dual boot with easybcd and neogrub, and that my android is
placed in my windows 7 ntfs partition in an Android4 folder. When a new
release of the zip-version of the Corvus mod comes, I just replace from
windows everything in that folder except of the file data.img. That is
quite easy to do.
Maybe something like that could be done as a native androidx86 update
function in the future?
Stefan
I'm very calm Corvus... ;-)
Post by Ooop Yooo
Just wanted to be sure if he had a good understanding on the way CWM
works and nethertheless if it has some advantages, I know it'll never be
implemented as that means too important changes in Android-x86 project.
Cons with CWM have already been described above.
Pros with CWM is that you can easily update the kernel, add
optimizations, many changes, add scripts and do install new Android version
without erasing existing datas, save and restore all Android system, etc....
Problem with Grub is it's not working well when one tries to install
Android-x86 iso on any medium : Pendrive, SD Card, HDD or so, no way to
update an existing Android installed version and keeping user datas.
ARM devs don't work the same way, as Android and kernel are two
different building process while Android-x86 building process is mainly a
single one process. You can build the kernel separately, but there is no
users tool to to install the kernel separately from Android.
I think there are some additional works to do on newinstaller and grub
to improve it... ^^
I guess busybox needs to be updated btw... ^^
Do you think you can work on it ? ;-)))
Post by Corvus
Ok... everybody calm down...
Lets think about how CWM works and if we need it.
You have a phone with no way to access other files that the /data by
default, with root you can access /system too, and maybe read some of the
other partitions, like recovery. This is ok, because we dont have access to
anything and now have access to something... now we change default recovery
(with limited access) with CWM where we have almost access to everything...
this is great...now we have access to everything, so now we can change rom,
and make some hacking...
Now we have a pc with grub... o wait, we already have access to all
partitions... we can make anything we want...
So once we know what is CWM for is clear that we dont need it...
Now, for updating and so on...
What you friend does was creare a partition layout similar to an
android phone and modify the installer scripts to copy them in the correct
partition. I mean, he create /data /system etc and modify the installer to
copy /system files in the correct partition. So for update this is good,
because it only need to change /system partition, but this is too a mess...
because /data from honeycomb may be not compatible with /data for ICS, so
maybe you can make a script to wipe /data, but this is another modification
that has to be done... I have think this in 30 seconds, but implementing
this can take many time and we can find many problems doing it.
So WE the developers (at least i speak of myself) prefer to make a
rom fully working and once it is done maybe work for a good way update it.
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notandyet
2012-04-08 11:16:50 UTC
Permalink
and does this idea deal with non-grub installs of android chained from
windows bootmanger
where linux is installed inside windows
such as
win boot loader
windows/linux (using wubi)
grub
linux/android1/android2/android3

grub in this case is in a ubuntu file on ntfs partition
and using etc/grub.d/40-custom for the androids 3 android partitions ext3

I'd be very skeptical of automated updating in this type of configuration
Post by Stefan Matthäus
Hello,
I was working seven years in 1st/2nd level support of a PC components
manufacturer (mainboards, graphics cards, etc...) so I know what I do.
Anyhow, this manual method to replace the system files by updated ones and
to keep the original ones, should be able to be done also in an automatic
step 1. Android X86 starts a backround update check process, which detects
new updates and download that as a single archive file
step 2. The update check process gives out a message to the user that
update is available and asks to reboot for the update. If he denys, the
update will be installed at next user generated reboot.
step 3. grub menu.lst is modified: The original entry to boot Android
productive environement is disabled. Instead a service-kernel / init.rd
whatever is enabled.
step 4. When the device reboots, that service-kernel starts instead of the
standard. The init-process is shortened much, it just starts a task to
unpack the update archive to the system. (The update package does not
contain personal datas and settings (data.img, data folder, whatever...) ,
so these keep untouched while the system files are replaced from the update
archive file.
step 5. after a verification that the package has been correctly unpacked
and overwritten the outdated system files, grub menu.lst is again changed
back to original. (see step 3)
step 6. Update process resets the device to reboot into Android system.
How about this idea?
Stefan
Just to be sure...
You aren't a noob ? Are you ? :P
When I see the numbers of users asking for help just on how to install
Android-x86 wether on Pendrive, SD Card or HDD, I guess it's not that easy.
I see also similar questions about updating versions and same issues...
"We" are devs and something that sounds like trivial for us, is not for
an end-user.
I have spent many years at supporting end-users, and I also do
developments and I know the great gap between our understanding and their
understanding of this kind of problematics.
Hopefully you can create an easier way to do all this pretty soon,
before Intel releases his own build... ^^ ;-)
--
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Ooop Yooo
2012-04-09 04:32:15 UTC
Permalink
In fact, wubi is also using grub inside windows manager, and I think it's
another version, and is working in a different way...

Wasn't a good idea to update grub when Ubuntu proposed it to do it, as it
just killed the bootmanager... lol ;-)

I have done the test at purpose just to verify a theory, but of course I
had a copy of the MBR... :-D

For the rest, he has to include many different tests by scripts and to rely
on ntfs3g... ^^

I guess someone also has to retreave wubi source code (if available) and
watch on how it is working. ;-)

But I also think this is very hard and heavy work.
Post by notandyet
and does this idea deal with non-grub installs of android chained from
windows bootmanger
where linux is installed inside windows
such as
win boot loader
windows/linux (using wubi)
grub
linux/android1/android2/android3
grub in this case is in a ubuntu file on ntfs partition
and using etc/grub.d/40-custom for the androids 3 android partitions ext3
I'd be very skeptical of automated updating in this type of configuration
Post by Stefan Matthäus
Hello,
I was working seven years in 1st/2nd level support of a PC components
manufacturer (mainboards, graphics cards, etc...) so I know what I do.
Anyhow, this manual method to replace the system files by updated ones
and to keep the original ones, should be able to be done also in an
step 1. Android X86 starts a backround update check process, which
detects new updates and download that as a single archive file
step 2. The update check process gives out a message to the user that
update is available and asks to reboot for the update. If he denys, the
update will be installed at next user generated reboot.
step 3. grub menu.lst is modified: The original entry to boot Android
productive environement is disabled. Instead a service-kernel / init.rd
whatever is enabled.
step 4. When the device reboots, that service-kernel starts instead of
the standard. The init-process is shortened much, it just starts a task to
unpack the update archive to the system. (The update package does not
contain personal datas and settings (data.img, data folder, whatever...) ,
so these keep untouched while the system files are replaced from the update
archive file.
step 5. after a verification that the package has been correctly unpacked
and overwritten the outdated system files, grub menu.lst is again changed
back to original. (see step 3)
step 6. Update process resets the device to reboot into Android system.
How about this idea?
Stefan
Just to be sure...
You aren't a noob ? Are you ? :P
When I see the numbers of users asking for help just on how to install
Android-x86 wether on Pendrive, SD Card or HDD, I guess it's not that easy.
I see also similar questions about updating versions and same issues...
"We" are devs and something that sounds like trivial for us, is not for
an end-user.
I have spent many years at supporting end-users, and I also do
developments and I know the great gap between our understanding and their
understanding of this kind of problematics.
Hopefully you can create an easier way to do all this pretty soon,
before Intel releases his own build... ^^ ;-)
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Ooop Yooo
2012-04-09 04:13:23 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

I had many thoughts about your idea but forgot some of them by time being :
may need some more rest and sleep time... lol

Anyway sounds like you just skip the install process and just step directly
to the update process... ^^

But, keep on on this basic premise.

I guess your idea will allow to do major upgrades say from Froyo to
Gingerbread to Honeycomb to Ice Cream to Jelly Bean, as well as with minor
updates ???

As I understood your explanations, this will only work with some specifics
builds, as long as the users have access to the Internet and have a display
(with touchscreen ?), so could not be transpose to any builds...

The rest below inside your post.
Post by Stefan Matthäus
Hello,
I was working seven years in 1st/2nd level support of a PC components
manufacturer (mainboards, graphics cards, etc...) so I know what I do.
Anyhow, this manual method to replace the system files by updated ones and
to keep the original ones, should be able to be done also in an automatic
step 1. Android X86 starts a backround update check process, which detects
new updates and download that as a single archive file
That means you make assumption this is a fully working specific build and
not a generic one, and no changes were made on the hardware.
Then, wouldn't it be better to leave the choice to the user to do a manual
update check process, or add a setting for manual or automatic update
process, or there will be a waste of time whenever system boots and is
running ?

Where will the updates been hosted ?

I guess you will also implement a to make sure the update will not be
corrupted.
Post by Stefan Matthäus
step 2. The update check process gives out a message to the user that
update is available and asks to reboot for the update. If he denys, the
update will be installed at next user generated reboot.
Again, no option to refuse the update for some reasons ??? ;-)
Post by Stefan Matthäus
step 3. grub menu.lst is modified: The original entry to boot Android
productive environement is disabled. Instead a service-kernel / init.rd
whatever is enabled.
hmmmm ???
Post by Stefan Matthäus
step 4. When the device reboots, that service-kernel starts instead of the
standard. The init-process is shortened much, it just starts a task to
unpack the update archive to the system. (The update package does not
contain personal datas and settings (data.img, data folder, whatever...) ,
so these keep untouched while the system files are replaced from the update
archive file.
That sounds fine in theory...
Post by Stefan Matthäus
step 5. after a verification that the package has been correctly unpacked
and overwritten the outdated system files, grub menu.lst is again changed
back to original. (see step 3)
I guess you you have placed a very strong and reliable verification system
which will verify unpacked packages (md5 ?) are not corrupted and won't
overlap the actual system and you make a compatibility check between kernel
package and Android packages...

Is this process relying on the actual install system process (newinstaller
sub system, busybox, etc...) ?

You also made a backup of the actual working system somewhere, just in
case... ^^
Post by Stefan Matthäus
step 6. Update process resets the device to reboot into Android system.
And what happens if the system is going into a boot loop/hang process ? ^^

Have you thought about a recovery system or a way to revert back to the old
system if anything's going wrong (reason about the mentioned backup) ? ;-)

This was a pro about CWM over Grub... ^^
Post by Stefan Matthäus
How about this idea?
The idea is not bad, but you'll have to strengthen everything, add some
parts and processes not existing in the actual project, so it might be out
of it or be sure the actual holder of the project will accept these changes.

There were some other things I forgot as previouly said, and will tell them
when I remember them, and others I can't tell here. ;-)
Post by Stefan Matthäus
Stefan
Just to be sure...
You aren't a noob ? Are you ? :P
When I see the numbers of users asking for help just on how to install
Android-x86 wether on Pendrive, SD Card or HDD, I guess it's not that easy.
I see also similar questions about updating versions and same issues...
"We" are devs and something that sounds like trivial for us, is not for
an end-user.
I have spent many years at supporting end-users, and I also do
developments and I know the great gap between our understanding and their
understanding of this kind of problematics.
Hopefully you can create an easier way to do all this pretty soon,
before Intel releases his own build... ^^ ;-)
Post by Stefan Matthäus
Hello, for me it was easy to update to a new android x86 build, without
loosing any datas , without loosing any settings, without cwm.
The trick is dual boot with easybcd and neogrub, and that my android is
placed in my windows 7 ntfs partition in an Android4 folder. When a new
release of the zip-version of the Corvus mod comes, I just replace from
windows everything in that folder except of the file data.img. That is
quite easy to do.
Maybe something like that could be done as a native androidx86 update
function in the future?
Stefan
I'm very calm Corvus... ;-)
Post by Ooop Yooo
Just wanted to be sure if he had a good understanding on the way CWM
works and nethertheless if it has some advantages, I know it'll never be
implemented as that means too important changes in Android-x86 project.
Cons with CWM have already been described above.
Pros with CWM is that you can easily update the kernel, add
optimizations, many changes, add scripts and do install new Android version
without erasing existing datas, save and restore all Android system, etc....
Problem with Grub is it's not working well when one tries to install
Android-x86 iso on any medium : Pendrive, SD Card, HDD or so, no way to
update an existing Android installed version and keeping user datas.
ARM devs don't work the same way, as Android and kernel are two
different building process while Android-x86 building process is mainly a
single one process. You can build the kernel separately, but there is no
users tool to to install the kernel separately from Android.
I think there are some additional works to do on newinstaller and grub
to improve it... ^^
I guess busybox needs to be updated btw... ^^
Do you think you can work on it ? ;-)))
Post by Corvus
Ok... everybody calm down...
Lets think about how CWM works and if we need it.
You have a phone with no way to access other files that the /data by
default, with root you can access /system too, and maybe read some of the
other partitions, like recovery. This is ok, because we dont have access to
anything and now have access to something... now we change default recovery
(with limited access) with CWM where we have almost access to everything...
this is great...now we have access to everything, so now we can change rom,
and make some hacking...
Now we have a pc with grub... o wait, we already have access to all
partitions... we can make anything we want...
So once we know what is CWM for is clear that we dont need it...
Now, for updating and so on...
What you friend does was creare a partition layout similar to an
android phone and modify the installer scripts to copy them in the correct
partition. I mean, he create /data /system etc and modify the installer to
copy /system files in the correct partition. So for update this is good,
because it only need to change /system partition, but this is too a mess...
because /data from honeycomb may be not compatible with /data for ICS, so
maybe you can make a script to wipe /data, but this is another modification
that has to be done... I have think this in 30 seconds, but implementing
this can take many time and we can find many problems doing it.
So WE the developers (at least i speak of myself) prefer to make a
rom fully working and once it is done maybe work for a good way update it.
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Stefan
2012-04-09 07:55:05 UTC
Permalink
Hello,

this is basically the way I update my android system, my process is not
automaticlally, but manually, but always the same steps, so I could
write a little script for it and it could include a little backup task.
My config is special as Android boots from a folder in my Windows 7
partition. But I think this could be adapted to a kind of automatic
process within Android. I update my Android from Windows (that is my
alternative update-kernel...), I download the ZIP package there, make
backup of the Android folder (to a network drive), and overwrite the
Android files with the content of the Zip, then I do a reboot back to
Android and it works. Based on that experience I just give you an idea
for an update process which could be realized in a clean Android / Linux
environement based on an alternative update-only-boot-process.
Verification of the downloaded files, denying the update by user, etc.,
this all are optional ideas which could be implemented.

Alternative ways could be implementing existing standard Linux
mechanisms based on apt-get, yum, yast, aptitude or whatever. This even
might work automatically on systems as mine where grub/menu.lst ist not
accessible for the Android system.

File hosting for the updates, per device tree should be hostet
centralized, maybe on AndroidX86.org.

Stefan
Post by Ooop Yooo
Hi,
I had many thoughts about your idea but forgot some of them by time
being : may need some more rest and sleep time... lol
Anyway sounds like you just skip the install process and just step
directly to the update process... ^^
But, keep on on this basic premise.
I guess your idea will allow to do major upgrades say from Froyo to
Gingerbread to Honeycomb to Ice Cream to Jelly Bean, as well as with
minor updates ???
As I understood your explanations, this will only work with some
specifics builds, as long as the users have access to the Internet and
have a display (with touchscreen ?), so could not be transpose to any
builds...
The rest below inside your post.
Hello,
I was working seven years in 1st/2nd level support of a PC
components manufacturer (mainboards, graphics cards, etc...) so I
know what I do.
Anyhow, this manual method to replace the system files by updated
ones and to keep the original ones, should be able to be done also
step 1. Android X86 starts a backround update check process, which
detects new updates and download that as a single archive file
That means you make assumption this is a fully working specific build
and not a generic one, and no changes were made on the hardware.
Then, wouldn't it be better to leave the choice to the user to do a
manual update check process, or add a setting for manual or automatic
update process, or there will be a waste of time whenever system boots
and is running ?
Where will the updates been hosted ?
I guess you will also implement a to make sure the update will not be
corrupted.
step 2. The update check process gives out a message to the user
that update is available and asks to reboot for the update. If he
denys, the update will be installed at next user generated reboot.
Again, no option to refuse the update for some reasons ??? ;-)
step 3. grub menu.lst is modified: The original entry to boot
Android productive environement is disabled. Instead a
service-kernel / init.rd whatever is enabled.
hmmmm ???
step 4. When the device reboots, that service-kernel starts
instead of the standard. The init-process is shortened much, it
just starts a task to unpack the update archive to the system.
(The update package does not contain personal datas and settings
(data.img, data folder, whatever...) , so these keep untouched
while the system files are replaced from the update archive file.
That sounds fine in theory...
step 5. after a verification that the package has been correctly
unpacked and overwritten the outdated system files, grub menu.lst
is again changed back to original. (see step 3)
I guess you you have placed a very strong and reliable verification
system which will verify unpacked packages (md5 ?) are not corrupted
and won't overlap the actual system and you make a compatibility check
between kernel package and Android packages...
Is this process relying on the actual install system process
(newinstaller sub system, busybox, etc...) ?
You also made a backup of the actual working system somewhere, just in
case... ^^
step 6. Update process resets the device to reboot into Android system.
And what happens if the system is going into a boot loop/hang process ? ^^
Have you thought about a recovery system or a way to revert back to
the old system if anything's going wrong (reason about the mentioned
backup) ? ;-)
This was a pro about CWM over Grub... ^^
How about this idea?
The idea is not bad, but you'll have to strengthen everything, add
some parts and processes not existing in the actual project, so it
might be out of it or be sure the actual holder of the project will
accept these changes.
There were some other things I forgot as previouly said, and will tell
them when I remember them, and others I can't tell here. ;-)
Stefan
Post by Ooop Yooo
Just to be sure...
You aren't a noob ? Are you ? :P
When I see the numbers of users asking for help just on how to
install Android-x86 wether on Pendrive, SD Card or HDD, I guess
it's not that easy. I see also similar questions about updating
versions and same issues...
"We" are devs and something that sounds like trivial for us, is
not for an end-user.
I have spent many years at supporting end-users, and I also do
developments and I know the great gap between our understanding
and their understanding of this kind of problematics.
Hopefully you can create an easier way to do all this pretty
soon, before Intel releases his own build... ^^ ;-)
Hello, for me it was easy to update to a new android x86
build, without loosing any datas , without loosing any
settings, without cwm.
The trick is dual boot with easybcd and neogrub, and that my
android is placed in my windows 7 ntfs partition in an
Android4 folder. When a new release of the zip-version of the
Corvus mod comes, I just replace from windows everything in
that folder except of the file data.img. That is quite easy
to do.
Maybe something like that could be done as a native
androidx86 update function in the future?
Stefan
I'm very calm Corvus... ;-)
Just wanted to be sure if he had a good understanding on
the way CWM works and nethertheless if it has some
advantages, I know it'll never be implemented as that
means too important changes in Android-x86 project.
Cons with CWM have already been described above.
Pros with CWM is that you can easily update the kernel,
add optimizations, many changes, add scripts and do
install new Android version without erasing existing
datas, save and restore all Android system, etc....
Problem with Grub is it's not working well when one tries
to install Android-x86 iso on any medium : Pendrive, SD
Card, HDD or so, no way to update an existing Android
installed version and keeping user datas.
ARM devs don't work the same way, as Android and kernel
are two different building process while Android-x86
building process is mainly a single one process. You can
build the kernel separately, but there is no users tool
to to install the kernel separately from Android.
I think there are some additional works to do on
newinstaller and grub to improve it... ^^
I guess busybox needs to be updated btw... ^^
Do you think you can work on it ? ;-)))
Ok... everybody calm down...
Lets think about how CWM works and if we need it.
You have a phone with no way to access other files
that the /data by default, with root you can access
/system too, and maybe read some of the other
partitions, like recovery. This is ok, because we
dont have access to anything and now have access to
something... now we change default recovery (with
limited access) with CWM where we have almost access
to everything... this is great...now we have access
to everything, so now we can change rom, and make
some hacking...
Now we have a pc with grub... o wait, we already have
access to all partitions... we can make anything we
want...
So once we know what is CWM for is clear that we dont
need it...
Now, for updating and so on...
What you friend does was creare a partition layout
similar to an android phone and modify the installer
scripts to copy them in the correct partition. I
mean, he create /data /system etc and modify the
installer to copy /system files in the correct
partition. So for update this is good, because it
only need to change /system partition, but this is
too a mess... because /data from honeycomb may be not
compatible with /data for ICS, so maybe you can make
a script to wipe /data, but this is another
modification that has to be done... I have think this
in 30 seconds, but implementing this can take many
time and we can find many problems doing it.
So WE the developers (at least i speak of myself)
prefer to make a rom fully working and once it is
done maybe work for a good way update it.
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Alexander Knopov
2012-06-07 15:20:30 UTC
Permalink
Sorry to bug you about small things.

But out of curiosity - why Android -x86 project builds 'recovery' and
'update' apps from 'bootable' component?

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